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Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 16:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK I just got a new 55in TV that converts 2D to 3D, and then spent a few hours playing DUST using the conversion. It works well on several games, and most HD programming, even Netflix streaeming altho I do use HQ settings and have a 22mbps connection.
It was visually unremarkable in DUST. Even with the 3D depth cranked up to about 80% it felt like a HUD display of the battle graphics overlayed a still flat view. The graphics float closest to you, but your gun doesn't. It makes the sighting display a bit odd also, and in turret you can't even tell it's on.
My question to the devs is this: With 3D becoming the standard, and conversion TVs like this now available, do you plan to implement a 3D display option for this game? It would help if you put out the version rather than just letting people convert standard 2D. Graphics tweaked for 3D by the game creators are always more visually coherent in 3D than the converted graphics. |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 17:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
DH STARBURNER420 wrote:Reb El wrote:OK I just got a new 55in TV that converts 2D to 3D, and then spent a few hours playing DUST using the conversion. It works well on several games, and most HD programming, even Netflix streaeming altho I do use HQ settings and have a 22mbps connection.
It was visually unremarkable in DUST. Even with the 3D depth cranked up to about 80% it felt like a HUD display of the battle graphics overlayed a still flat view. The graphics float closest to you, but your gun doesn't. It makes the sighting display a bit odd also, and in turret you can't even tell it's on.
My question to the devs is this: With 3D becoming the standard, and conversion TVs like this now available, do you plan to implement a 3D display option for this game? It would help if you put out the version rather than just letting people convert standard 2D. Graphics tweaked for 3D by the game creators are always more visually coherent in 3D than the converted graphics. 3D is becoming the standard?
Since most if not all new TVs will have the ability to convert 2D to 3D, I would consider that a "standard". This 55inch model I got cost less than a grand. Dorm room TVs come with it now, little 24" models, etc. I think it depends on what you want to watch, play and HOW you do it will continue to be very individual choices.
Another poster said "gimmicky" - I will point out that every major studio is putting out more 3D content than ever. Most of the big blockbusters this year were 3D, in special theaters equipped for it. If it's a gimmick it is pretty pervasive at the moment and growing by leaps and bounds.
To the poster who said it should be in the released version, that is in fact what I am asking: I do not expect 3D support in BETA, but will they tweak it for 3D prior to final release? |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 17:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
You guys know that the glasses are no longer powered, right? Cheap and lightweight, easy to use and don't bother your eyes as much. Not long before the 3D is optimized for general viewing. |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 17:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goliath Raven wrote:Id rather they support this when/if it comes out on consumer release for ps3.
They have been trying to get gamers into VR helmets since the late 80s. The idea has not caught on. This device looks interesting, but the major complaint of the first gen 3D glasses was "too heavy, to confining, hate that they have to be powered units". I really would not want to have to wear that just to play DUST immersively VS having to wear a light, unpowered set of specs and have a slightly reduced field of view. Besides, I doubt if the Sony corp will support that device for use with PS3. They are notorious for only allowing partner peripherals on their systems.
i will admit it sounds cool, but I doubt it will catch on anytime soon, especially as more 3D options are just now appearing.
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Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 17:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Raynor Ragna wrote:No 3D until the tech is advanced enough that we can walk around the projection completely and without any glasses for an aid.
3D stuff is very gimmicky. People get sever headaches... And I haven't heard a SINGLE person say they prefer it over classic 2D varients. I wouldn't want CCP to spend the time and money creating something that few people will use and adds nothing to the game.
I don't get headaches from the unpowered glasses. And I prefer it over flat display if the game looks good using it. Eerything fromRockBand Blitz to Borderlands, The Shoot, House of The Dead games using MOVE, ChoplifterHD, TopGun, all these titles look great to me using the conversion. Maybe some people just don't adjust to change very well, but I think it's great.
Try not to think like my Dad: Anything new must be suspect, and a fad, only the way we have ALWAYS done it will ever be considered "right".
Change is a good thing.
Be sure to let me know when u get that holodeck installed! LOL |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 17:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:3D is a gimmick at best
KZ3 had 3D and that took up half of the disc, if they kept 3D out of it we could have had an awesome finished storyline and plot with an even better MP experience
KZ franchise failed where MAG succeeded. The crappy story was due to the writers, not including 3D on the disc. MAG is still the best shooter so far because 256players at a time could match up. DUST struggling w just 24 at a time....but these are just our opinions. Your and mine are always gonna be different than everyone elses. |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.07 20:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:the reason VR should be so appealing to gamers is that thru gyro's it could replace camera control for the player.
in DUST terms that would mean looking somewhere before your gun is even pointing at it, or the possibility of intuitive peeking around corners. Naturally this would change if DUST had the instant turn of other games...
i guess as is i'd rather DUST as it is now :).. but VR should've been embraced years ago :(
The problem is prioperception - A helmet is only half the problem, and gyros make the gaming harder not better. Youglance left or right with your eyes and your head, not just your head. And what about an aiming reticlce? You cannot slave that to eyes or the game processor can't keep up or the player can't control the aiming sights. So you STILL have to have two joysticks, one for movement (since u have no trackball floor) and one for aiming the reticle. At that point who cares if you can "look" with your head, the whole thing has become way more complicated than the MOVE controller, which ALREADY lets you "look" left or right by sweeping gun sights. It is STILL very mpuch more difficult to control movement just with that addition alone. The helmet/goggles combined with a MOVE rifle might come closer-aim w ur gun, head free to turn- but it is still light years from smooth, bug free fun we can have much easier on a flat screen. Maybe a flat screen with some 3D support LOL
But I am patiently waiting on that holodeck, y'all.... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.08 04:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Goliath Raven wrote:Reb El wrote:Billi Gene wrote:the reason VR should be so appealing to gamers is that thru gyro's it could replace camera control for the player.
in DUST terms that would mean looking somewhere before your gun is even pointing at it, or the possibility of intuitive peeking around corners. Naturally this would change if DUST had the instant turn of other games...
i guess as is i'd rather DUST as it is now :).. but VR should've been embraced years ago :( The problem is prioperception - A helmet is only half the problem, and gyros make the gaming harder not better. Youglance left or right with your eyes and your head, not just your head. And what about an aiming reticlce? You cannot slave that to eyes or the game processor can't keep up or the player can't control the aiming sights. So you STILL have to have two joysticks, one for movement (since u have no trackball floor) and one for aiming the reticle. At that point who cares if you can "look" with your head, the whole thing has become way more complicated than the MOVE controller, which ALREADY lets you "look" left or right by sweeping gun sights. It is STILL very mpuch more difficult to control movement just with that addition alone. The helmet/goggles combined with a MOVE rifle might come closer-aim w ur gun, head free to turn- but it is still light years from smooth, bug free fun we can have much easier on a flat screen. Maybe a flat screen with some 3D support LOL But I am patiently waiting on that holodeck, y'all.... Your concerns are actually why I'm so psyched about the rift! It's is being developed by John Cormack, one of the legendary creators of Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein and may other fps and Doom 3 is already compatible with the prototype device. Which means that they have already figured out these issues in one of the most legendary FPS franchises of all time! Not to mention Cormack is one of the most picky/enthusiastic gamers you could ever meet as you can clearly see in any video where he discusses one of his projects including this one. Just listening to him talk about reducing the ms delay between head motion and display update, or the weight of the headset, or the warping of the screen with optics to cluster the most pixels right in front of the eye to mimic the human eyes perception of the world, gives me great confidence that this will be a device that is well built and over all my expectations in all measures of performance. I can't wait to receive my developers kit in December and start work on a mod for minecraft!
A a fellow technofreak! LOL I hear whatnyqou are saying and a lot of companies are in development for some pretty awesome products. But from harsh experience with the MOVE release many companies are hesitant to invest into code and support for new visual interface systems. Why not try and develop wrap-around screens for gamers that gives a more realistic 160 degree view? 2D to 3D conversion so that your favorite games are sort of...new again! Oh right thats this thread LOL
You know the TV this is replacing is the present my wife bought me for our ten year anniversary. She got the diamond band to add to jer wedding ring and engagement ring LOL. My point is tha it was new just 6yrs ago and it was 720p plasma and cost $1800 on sale. Today twice the TV is half the price. Where can we go in the Anext six years tech-wise? Could be quite far. Devs should include 3D support on the assumption EVERYONE will want it in 3 yrs.... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not a gimmick as far as I can tell. The new Resident Evil movie is 3D, they are rereleasing Finding Nemo in 3D, Zen Pinball just put out a free update that makes their game even more Awesome in 3D. Everyone I talk to seems to know someone who just got a 3D tv. I don't consider a Walmart item under a grand to be "an expensive tv" and I don't think the percentage is small anymore. 3D is here to stay as an OPTION many people will choose to use for Gaming and media. |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bre Nite wrote:The problem with 3D in general is that the best movie that has come out in 3D was Avatar. Since then there have been many 3D movies but just like the 80s where only certain items pop out on screen it is not immersive. Changing video broadcasting nationwide was difficult enough, and was push back repeatedly. Though new TVs are coming out compatible the buying public has not be accepting of the high price tag, the lack of quality with 3D, and lack of product. Pay close attention to your movie theaters too, there was a major push by the studios for 3D, but the theaters are the one who make the sales. Recently due to the decline of 3D sales, more 2D movies have been shown rather than the 3D. Their goal is to fill the seats and the majority of the American public has not be willing to pay the extra for the 3D movies.
They have branched out this 3D acceptance with video games, cameras, video cameras, computer screens etc. So for there has not been any record breaking sales. This is due to the public in general seeing 3D as the Laser Disk which was massively big, cost a lot and the player was even more expensive. This paved the way for CDs and DVDs. Also, with the problems the 3D is having with the general public, headaches, blood pressure issues, epileptic seizures especially in people who never had issues prior. These issues have triggered multiple news reports and disclaimers prior to watching a 3D movie, much like video games have. 3D has a place with the **** industry right now who is working diligently on exploiting this new technology but market does not show that it will have a long term sustainability unless the content of all 3D movies become equal or better then the Avatar experience. Google along with other companies have been working diligently in creating virtual reality options rather than focusing on 3D. What it comes down to is the general public, not the small percentage who can afford the new TVs and expensive toys who will drive the technology.
A small correction to your statement. The theaters who offer it in 3D pay more for the equipment and IMAX screen, but the ticket price for 3D is the same as any other seat. So your argument breaks down on that point. Audiences are in fact selling out theaters with 3D capability faster than older theaters showing the same new release in 2D. As the technology improves and becomes cheap, as it now has since I paid less for this LED 3D than I did a new 42in plasma 720p just 6 short years ago, it will become a "standard" option. I think you should reconsider your position and think about buying some stock in the right companies... LOL
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Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
GarryKE wrote:I think you should take into account firstly how the software on televisions actually converts 2D images. It's sort of like layers, somewhat like Photoshop. Adding support for this from a game could be very hard. Perhaps we should let CCP do what they're doing for the moment as 3D could be just as challenging in the future.
I mean what's the point of 3D anyway? I want to sit down and watch Doctor Who with a nice cup of tea in the evenings. I would never want a dalek to jump out at me from the TV. I'd never watch it again!
LOL I never found the Daleks that intimidating...rolling trash cans with OCD if u ask me. But I hear what you are saying. I have tried watching my various Star Trek series on Netflix: Since they werent SHOT in 3D, or even digital or widescreen, they are visually unimpressive using the 3D conversion. But the recent rerelease of SW on BluRay has some very good visuals, especially on the later filmed episodes.
Adding the support for the game is something I think should be layered in from the beginiing as it will make it much less buggy than adding it later. But I am no 3D expert and perhaps they have to actually HAVE something to "film in 3D" as it were. My point in this thread is that we should plan for it to become a common option, so including it can only broaden the appeal of this or any game.
And the point that older film not shot in digital format does NOT convert well, and that games not setup for 3D dont convert as well as either, we SHOULD ask CCP for development in 3D. 6yrs ago TVs were mostly square and 1080p was expensive. NOW look where display tech is! Why wouldn't you want to make sure your game isn't old and dated looking when it's barely been out a a year and all the NEW games are in 3D..... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 19:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Reb El wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:3D is a gimmick at best
KZ3 had 3D and that took up half of the disc, if they kept 3D out of it we could have had an awesome finished storyline and plot with an even better MP experience KZ franchise failed where MAG succeeded. The crappy story was due to the writers, not including 3D on the disc. MAG is still the best shooter so far because 256players at a time could match up. DUST struggling w just 24 at a time....but these are just our opinions. Your and mine are always gonna be different than everyone elses. BS 3D took half of the disc space up on KZ3 if they didnt have 3D on it they would have had 50% more disc space to do what they want with it 3D is a gimmick at best something to keep the little kids entertained when they watch a kiddy film
Disc space is not an issue. They could have had a game with 14gb of DLC files, just like DCUniverse, or Dust here for that matter. If they actually HAD a storyline they could have offered the 3Dversion online. You just want to blame new tech for the fact that KZ just really isn't that good LOL.
Yes, James Cameron spent 200million dollars just to develop the Real3D camera and software system so he could film Avatar in immersive 3D, so that little kids would watch it..... RIIIIIIGHT. You sound like my Dad, he hasa been arguing with me for the last 12 years that the internet is a fad.... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.17 20:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
[quote=GarryKE]I understand your argument. I just don't see what the point of 3D is in an FPS. But you're clearly a 3D fan so you might find this interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg8Bh5iI2WY BF3 3D simulator by the Gadget Show on Channel 5.
So what could be the benefits of 3D support in Dust? And don't say being 3D lol[/
The benefits would be that people like me who like the 3d option will be more inclined to play DUST over a non3d competitor. Yes I know dev work is expensive and would the market share justify it? Let me just start by saying DUST will always be a niche FPS, never on par witht the big CoD and DF franchises. It currently has no RPG or MMO functionality on PS3. The ONLY ppl it attracts are the EVE players, a few FPS nuts who play it ALL, adult scifi fans with brains, the odd nerd w a gun fetish, etc. So I would think, considering the demographic, that adding 3D would help it stand out, live longer in the genre, add interest and provide a small percentage more to the total player count.
Not to mention helping the poor, at present, graphics to grab attention a bit more. Detail is sparse, maps are bare, terrain is repetitive, etc. I enjoyed the game a LOT more using a MOVE controller and 3D glasses to play, felt much more immersive than slumping on a couch giving myself carpal tunnel and nearsightedness! Crappy MOVE control module inserted into this beuild means it has too large a dead zone and doesnt work in turrets but thats another thread.... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I hope I'm not the only one that thinks that this should in no way be any kind of priority for the dev team. 3D in gaming is gimicky and dumb, and spending time on it would take away from aspects of design that actually need it
Isn't. It is EVERYWHERE man, look around, go shop TVs. I also don't believe the actual 3D rendering requires that much development. This game has so many bugs, such a poor integration, awful balancing, lousy controls, and pitiful graphics, I can't see how adding 3D could make it any worse.
"gimmicky and dumb" is usually how people describe something with which ithey actually have no experience, or very little. How many hours do YOU spend a week gaming in 3D or watching converted movies?
You guys seem to think there is only ONE guy working on this game and he shouldn't be bothered to fix anyone elses request but your own. There is a team, and somewhere in the team is a division charged with graphic development. Within THAt division there is someone who can be tasked to layer in 3D.
Lemme guess, you are another KZ player who got mad that the last one sucked and blamed it on adding 3D.... |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:I hope I'm not the only one that thinks that this should in no way be any kind of priority for the dev team. 3D in gaming is gimicky and dumb, and spending time on it would take away from aspects of design that actually need it Pretty much this The % of 3D users is prob quite small tbh so 3D as a whole does not benefit the majority of users or the game itself in anyway
You haven't been reading the blogs on TV tech then. ALmost every TV will have the option soon. it's cheap and easy to add in. Your protest sounds like someone 30years ago arguing that "surroundSound" is a gimmick, only a small percentage will ever use it, who needs more than HiFi Stereo...
It sounds like those of you protesting have the mistaken impression that today's 3D is the same as what they used to put in horror movies, Jason chasing co-eds with a 3D machete. This is not the same tech! The converted 3D doesnt have things that "jump out at you"and there is no feeling of eye strain. Today the images just have a greater depth, a slightly enhanced sidereal motion.
For those who havven't yet, play Gran Turismo5 in 3D. They put out a simulation game with support for that tech when almost NO ONE had a 3D TV - yet. It is seamless, integrated and enhances play without you ever even NOTICING you are using 3D! THe point is that using the tech to make a game even better for THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO USE 3D will not diminish the game as it stands in 2D. I played GT5 using a racing chair for the last 2 years without 3D - but now that I have it I never use anything ELSE on that game!
I think you need to consider carefully how a negative comment makes you appear on a subject such as this. WHy NOT add it in? I am 45yrs old & I think it's cool, don't care if you don't wanna use it but there are plenty of people who do. Would I watch the nightly news in 3D? Of course not, anymore than I would listen to it in full Dolby5.1 surround. But do I like using those options on my games, or movies? HELL yeah! |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Stuifie5 wrote:Watching stuff in 3D is cool for a while, then you start to get used to it and it becomes normal. And I'm one of those guys who get a headache from watching 3D stuff. To me it would'nt really matter. Yes, you're right, pretty much every single tv in shops are 3D. But to me it might as well be 2D. In fact, my TV doesn't even support 720p, so it's still running on SD.
Bless Your Heart! JK I understand, had a square TV for a long time before we got our first plasma 42". ANd that was kindof my experience on the better games and movies, after a bit you didn't even notice it was on.
If it doesn't matter to you , and you wouldn't use it, would you object for some reason if they included 3D support for this game? It's online anyway, so disc space shouldn't be an issue. |
Reb El
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
S0UL PH0ENIX wrote:People who say 3D is a gimmick probably haven't played Uncharted 3, Assassins Creed: Revelations or Batman: Arkham City on a 3D TV. Those games looked amazing with the added depth perception. Some of the biggest publishers, including Sony and Ubisoft are making 3D a standard in many of their games. Looking forward to Assassins Creed 3 in 3D and can't wait to skyhook around in Bioshock Infinite next year with that sweet depth perception.
The pop out 3D effect I think is gimmicky, I'll admit. But the pop in effect is just so sweet. When you get the feeling of distance between two assets in the game, it's awesome. Batman was especially sweet.
3D made gaming look as if my TV was a window into another world. 2D can't compare to masterfully implemented 3D IMHO.
Grab the new Zen Pinball update - they have a whole version now that is 3D supported - and it's free! Made the tables seem VERY realistic, and definitely more immersive. Like you said, seemed tomake the TV into a window, or in this case INTO a Pinball machine! |
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